Mayor told 'think again' over casino
MAYOR Nick Bye is being urged to drop the idea of a new casino for Torquay amid claims it may be put on hold for 18 months.
The £50,000 set aside this year for the project and allocated officer time could be better spent, say the Lib Dems.
They claim around the country 10 casinos have closed down as the recession starts to take hold.
The mayor has asked for a report setting out the latest position and to investigate whether delaying the project for a year or 18 months would damage the resort's prospects of getting any casino. The council is about to produce a gambling policy.
Following the councillors' briefing Liberal Democrat group leader Steve Darling said it was clear a new casino would only be likely to lead to a couple of dozen more jobs at best.
He wrote to Mr Bye saying: "The Liberal Democrats have always been casino sceptics. My scepticism has increased. The Government has also changed the tax regime for casinos, and the UK is experiencing an economic downturn.
"Given all the above I and many others are curious to know why you are so hell bent on this project, when there will be little, if any, gain for local people.
"The £50,000 you have set aside for this project, and the council officer time involved, would I am sure be better spent on something more worthwhile."
Cllr Darling told the Herald Express: "As it is now obviously not going to be Torbay's economic saviour as the mayor said it would be, it is time for him to think again on this project."
Bay MP Adrian Sanders, said: "I warned right from the start of the process the sums would not stack up, and were probably never going to, even when the economy was not in trouble. It was never going to be a goer.
"But a lot of council taxpayers' money has been wasted in pursuit of this dream which never had public support.
"The mayor needs to put forward a vision for the seafront which has the support of the people of Torquay, not something put together by external agents."
Mayor Bye denied he was 'hell bent' on the casino.
"I think we should have an open mind on this. Things have moved on from two or three years ago with the casino business."
He said when the idea was first mooted there seemed to be widespread support for the idea. But opinions at the workshop ranged from those keen to see a new casino in the town to those who strongly oppose it.
Mr Bye said: "There are so many more other opportunities available to Torbay than there were two or three years ago. The tax regime for casinos has also changed so there is less profit for operators, the economy has also slowed down and the leisure industry is having a hard time.
"What was on offer two or three years ago might not be on offer now. But maybe things will get better in a year or two.
"I always said what we wanted was an entertainment complex, rather like a cruise ship experience, which will draw in high spending visitors to the Bay.
"If in this climate the community benefit of this scheme is less attractive, then I think we have to have an open mind on it.
"I have always believed there have got to be community benefits and it has got to an attraction in its own right.
"If there are two companies keen on getting the licence then we will be in a strong position to negotiate on those benefits, otherwise we won't."
But he said areas like Newquay and Bournemouth would be keen to have the licence if Torbay didn't take it up.
"We mustn't shoot ourselves in the foot, pull out and then in five years' time find Bournemouth or Newquay have wonderful new casinos pulling the visitors in."
Last autumn the council said it was talking to up to six developers who have been drawing up plans for the waterfront area in the hopes of going into partnership with Torbay Council.
Proposals suggested include a permanent ice rink within the banjo area as well as a hotel and casino complex on the harbour's edge.
Other developers have suggested expanding the Princess Theatre and providing an outdoor arena with associated restaurants and shops.
Torbay Development Agency is in talks with a number of developers and operators regarding the casino licence. The next stage of the process is for Torbay Council to consult on its revised gambling policy prior to the licensing competition getting underway.
The new draft Torquay harbourside area action plan states that Torquay prom around the banjo and the Pavilion needs extensive repairs and a solution is needed which can 'generate significant income to finance this work'.
The report suggests a redeveloped Pavilion, possibly taking in a larger area around the sea-facing and harbour side of the historic building, up to the banjo, and providing a new use for the Pavilion, could help raise funds for repairs to the building and prom.
25 Comments
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by jaded, torbay
Tuesday, August 04 2009, 11:59AM
“To the Observer, there was more to the shooting that night. The policeman, was not the target and it was very unfortunate indeed that he was shot and killed. The target was the man who owned the casino, who I believe was Greek. There was a dispute between him and the man who killed the policeman.
More casino's are not needed in Torbay, 1 is enough for any area”
by The Observer, Somewhere
Tuesday, August 04 2009, 11:29AM
“Marilyn Swindon...what a great idea...it was tried in the Bay in the early 1950's, it was from about 1949, but it failed due to people being scared and fuel rationing but was taken to Weymouth, Poole and Bournemouth, but again failed there for the same reasons. The seaplanes were berthed in the outer harbour and were taken out to a pontoon just off of Marine Spa and Shag Rock, I used to watch them for hours as a kid.
With safety now improved and people not so frightened of flying it would be a great success. I remember going to Vancouver, Canada where they still have flying boat pleasure flights to go up the coast, it is so popular people have to pre book. Why cannot that happen here in Torquay, with all the spectacular coasts of Devon, it would be better than going up in that condom.
Bring the 1950's back when Torquay was not Torbay, when the streets were clean and safe to walk. We need a vision of the past and Torquay was truly the Queen of the English Riviera”
by peter, torquay
Tuesday, August 04 2009, 10:26AM
“Every time I read comments about the mayor and his viision, they are usually negative. The council is spending tens of thousands on consultants, because nobody there is business minded enough or has the ability to make a sensible decision on behalf of the rate payers. The council is led by a lame duck, whose main objective is to feather his own nest and to abandon Torbay in favour of a goverment seat. The promanade and so called 'banjo' area will just be left to rot in the meantime. Pull your fingers out Torbay council.”
by Marilyn, Swindon
Tuesday, August 04 2009, 7:44AM
“Get Away From Gambling!!
Torquay needs something 'Fresh'
Why not try a 'Flying Boat'[trips around the Bay] as my parents had in Bournemouth back after WW2. Come on Torquay You have a Fantastic Bay area it now needs great Boost of 'WOW' !! My Husband was born in Torquay in 1961 and he and I can see the 'slow decline' of once a 'perfect place' too visit for all.Do something different as it will encourage 'money' to your shores. The Cruise boats are 'the norm' now but an effective 'hit hard-we are THE place to visit! has to work..This is really the way to be different and 'Remember'
'---[[Torbay is always special]] Please keep it that way xx”
by The Observer, Somewhere
Monday, August 03 2009, 11:03PM
“Herr Mayor says Bournemouth and Newquay would jump at the chance, where is the comparison, Bournemouth (including Poole and Christchurch and Boscombe) has a population in excess of 400,000 and already has ten casinos, and Newquay population is 20,000, and has no casinos but the summer population is many teenagers or surfers. Where is the comparison. Both these resorts are well run, especially Bournemouth and Poole, has good road access and train links, if they have a vision it is light years in front of Torquay.
And where is the 'banjo' on Torquay seafront, is it the fountain halfway along between the Princess Theatre, where are all these new names coming from, I am local but must now be out of touch. What was the other one I read of, the Royal Terrace, never been known to locals as anything other that Rock Walk.”
by The Observer, Somewhere
Monday, August 03 2009, 10:40PM
“Colin I think you are very disrespectful and a disgrace, Dennis Arthur Smith, 44 years, a Police Constable was shot dead whilst pursuing a man wanted for murder in Torwood Street, Torquay, he was awarded the Queens Police Medal for Gallantry, a very rare reward for his selfless bravery.. He had come from the Metrpolitan Police to Devon for a quieter life, he was true gentleman. I know his widow reads the Herald Express she is living in the Newton Abbot area and I send her all my best wishes.
Colin obviously does not respect this, if he did he would not make light of this. I apologise for him Mrs Smith.”
by Colin, Torquay
Monday, August 03 2009, 9:56PM
“Yup, can't move round these parts for murderous gambling addicts!
What about on line gambling?
Do you really believe that with no casino in Torquay (ignoring the slight issue that, ahem, there already is one, not to mention plenty of betting shops) it will "cure" gambling addicts?
A new casino would not make one jot of difference to gambling addicts, who already have a myriad of on line and high street options open to them.
You might as well argue that opening a shop that sells alcohol in Torbay will encourage alcoholism.”
by The Observer, Somewhere
Monday, August 03 2009, 8:56PM
“What happened at the then Casino/Gambling club in Torquay in 1973...how many were shot dead and was that not the night that PC Dennis Smith was shot dead in his line of duty when approaching a Greek Man, with gambling debts at that casino. Can anyone remember that?
That is what happens when people are addicted to gambling.
Do we want that to happen again? I guess not.”
by Dizzy, Torbay
Monday, August 03 2009, 6:44PM
“Because our mayor listens to no-one, the casino will probably be up and running in 6 months time, just so that he can blow another raspberry in the faces of the bay taxpayers.
Baggins are you suggesting that he has any sort of talent?he certainly can't act , we all saw through him very early on.
At a push Oldway mansion could have been used as a casino and events venue, it has plenty of parking.”
by mark, torquay
Monday, August 03 2009, 6:08PM
“If we must have a casino can it at least be built on a brown field site such as palm court or the ERC rather than developing our precious public space.”